Why not reduce latency by Thunderbolt?
I've been using Wacom tablets, without screens build in, for 30 years. I once bought a Cintiq but found it too distracting that the mouse / cursor is always slightly trailing behind the stylus. I kept using it for a while, because everyone said it was a matter of getting used to it, but I never did, so I switched back.
Still, I always assumed Wacom would adapt newer protocols and one day the latency would become less.
USB 2 is from 2000 and has a latency of about 250 ms, 1/8th of a second. I figured one day there would be a faster version. There has been since 2008. Yet even the latest premium Wacom tablets still use USB 2.
Why doesn't use Wacom use USB 3 that allows for 30 ms or even faster, if I understand correctly.
Even better, why not use Thunderbolt that allows for 1 millisecond, almost no latency? It's not as if Thunderbolt is a rare interface these days.
Very curious about this… It would give Wacom an edge over others and iPads again.
-
Hi laptopleon Lastname,
Thanks for your input and questions.
Just to be clear, the entire Cintiq Pro line (17, 22, 27) and the Wacom Movink already support Thunderbolt with Display port Alternamode as a single connection option.
We also keep the USB-A 3.2 available on Cintiq Pro line since a lot of desktop computers still offer this option.
Also, please note that when discussing latency, USB speed is not the only factor. That is only one portion of the equation when you consider polling rate from the tablet sensor, processing power on the computer to render the stroke, line smoothing on the software side and then the response rate and refresh rate of the display.I am not sure which Wacom Display you tried in the past, but I would recommend you give any of the models I mentioned above a chance as we have made several improvements to the hardware to provide a smoother experience. Just bear in mind there are certain factors we do not control, as I mentioned above.
0 -
Thanks for your explanation. By the way, I respond earlier, but the site became unresponsive, so here's a new attempt:
I thought the tablets are still USB 2 because the specs on the page about Intuos say:
-
[…] For a Mac, you may require an adaptor to connect your USB-C
-
[…]
-
standard USB Type-A port,
-
Bluetooth Classic for wireless connection […]
Technically it doesn't say which version of USB, but realistically, this usually means it's an older version. The Bluetooth being 'Classic' more or less confirms that because that can mean anything from 1.0 to 3.0 (from 2009), apparently (had to look that one up).
According serveral sites, Bluetooth LE, which is newer, has a latency of around 6 ms, while Classic needs about 100 ms.
I very well understand that there are quite a few other factors that come into play between moving the stylus and moving the cursor on the screen. However, no matter the other factors, using Bluetooth Classic instead of LE on itself adds a tenth of a second. That is significant.
- - -
The Wacom Intuos Pro specs are different and say:
USB 2.0 port *For a Mac, you may require an adaptor to connect your USB-C
Since the Intuos Pro has USB 2, that is still the speed Wacom tablets had around 2000, 25 years ago. This also means that connecting it via BT may be faster than via wired / USB-C / 2.0.
Bluetooth Classic for wireless connection to PC or Mac, Bluetooth LE for wireless connection to mobile devices (in optional paper mode for M and L sizes only),
Which makes me wonder; On what devices exactly is the Intuos Pro connection faster? Does a Macbook Pro count as a mobile device or as a Mac?
- - -
I am not sure which Wacom Display you tried in the past […]
I bought the € 849 Cintiq 12WX in October 2010. Besides the lag, somehow the coordinates were getting distorted, specially when drawing closer the edges. Even with a ruler it was impossible to draw a straight line. I imagine the current line up is better.
This indeed makes me quite curious about the more recent Display models. What is the latency of those? And is any of them faster than the rest?
0 -
-
Hi again laptopleon Lastname
Thanks again for your interest and for the great questions.- You are absolutely right about Bluetooth classic and LE. However, both the Wacom Intuos and the Wacom Intuos Pro were released in 2018 and 2017.
If you look at the Wacom One from 2023, we use Bluetooth LE and USB-C
https://www.wacom.com/en-us/products/wacom-one#Specifications
In any case, if you are really concerned with speed, cable connection will always be superior. - A Mac computer will only make use of BT Classic for the Intuos Pro. Bluetooth LE is only for iPad, iPhone and similar devices.
- The Cintiq Pro line and the Movink are definitely the fastest displays in the line up. Movink only goes up to 60Hz, but the since it's an OLED display, the response time provides a very smooth experience. The Cintiq Pro line has 120Hz support but since it's using IPS panels, has a slightly slower response time.
https://www.wacom.com/en-us/products/pen-displays/wacom-movink
https://www.wacom.com/en-us/products/wacom-cintiq-pro-overview#Specifications - Yes, there have been several improvements to the technology on many fronts so you would be able to have straight lines and a lot more accuracy near the edges.
0 - You are absolutely right about Bluetooth classic and LE. However, both the Wacom Intuos and the Wacom Intuos Pro were released in 2018 and 2017.
-
Thank you for the insights. Between this and some youtube videos on the subject, I've learned quite a bit more details.
I can understand you are hesitant to name an time on how much the latency of the Pro line / Movink is, but maybe you can give an estimate or 'about between x an y ms on a recent Apple laptop' range? I mean, it's not as if there is any faster competitor product available on the desktop / laptop anyway and it is very unlikely that there ever will be in the forseeable future.
0 -
Hi laptopleon Lastname,
This is not something we measure so I don't really know. Sorry about that.0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
5 comments